The anti-gun lobby is on the offensive following the Orlando terrorist attack, seeking to preemptively ban thousands of Americans from owning guns.
And Republicans could be ready to make a deal — stopping Americans flagged on the “no-fly list” from purchasing guns, even if they’ve never been actually accused of a crime.
According to The Associated Press, a Democratic senator frustrated with congressional inaction on gun violence led a nearly 15-hour Senate filibuster before yielding the floor early Thursday, making a pledge that he and his colleagues would press hard for more gun control three days after 49 people were killed at a Florida nightclub.
Connecticut Sen. Chris Murphy ended a series of speeches with his Democratic colleagues at 2:11 a.m after promising at the outset that he would remain on the Senate floor “until we get some signal, some sign that we can come together.” At the end, he said he had won commitments from Republican leaders that they would hold votes on amendments to expand background checks and ban gun sales to certain Americans.
On Wednesday, presumptive Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump said he will be meeting with the National Rifle Association to discuss ways to block people on terrorism watch lists or no fly lists from buying guns as his party scrambles to respond in the aftermath of the worst mass shooting in modern U.S. history.
Trump announced the meeting with a tweet —
I will be meeting with the NRA, who has endorsed me, about not allowing people on the terrorist watch list, or the no fly list, to buy guns.
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 15, 2016
The NRA, one of the nation’s most powerful lobbying groups, responded in a statement.
“The NRA’s position on this issue has not changed. The NRA believes that terrorists should not be allowed to purchase or possess firearms, period,” said Chris Cox, the executive director of group’s Institute for Legislative Action, in the statement. “Anyone on a terror watch list who tries to buy a gun should be thoroughly investigated by the FBI and the sale delayed while the investigation is ongoing.
“At the same time, due process protections should be put in place that allow law-abiding Americans who are wrongly put on a watchlist to be removed,” Cox said.
The Orlando gunman, Omar Mateen, was investigated twice by the FBI and had been on the government’s terrorist watch list for 10 months before being removed.
However, stopping purchases by suspects on the terrorism watch list or no fly list wouldn’t have stopped Mateen from buying a gun since he’d been pulled from the watch list roughly two years ago, and there’s no mechanism in place to bar an individual who was previously on such a list from purchasing a firearm.
Trump frequently declares that he is one of the nation’s biggest supporters of the 2nd Amendment, which guarantees the right to bear firearms, and he often warns his supporters that Clinton aims to take away their guns.
But his suggestion to prohibit those on the lists from getting the guns, though out of step with many leading Republicans, is not entirely new for the celebrity businessman. In an interview on ABC in November after a terror attack in Paris, George Stephanopoulus asked “Mr. Trump, yes or no, should someone on the terror watch list be allowed to buy a gun?”
Trump replied, “If somebody is on a watch list and an enemy of state and we know it’s an enemy of state, I would keep them away, absolutely.”
Speaking at a rally in Atlanta Wednesday afternoon, Trump made no mention of meeting with the NRA but talked about the benefits of armed citizens.
“I’m going to save your Second Amendment,” he told the crowd, arguing that, had the victims of the Orlando and Paris shootings had been armed, the carnage would have been minimized.
But the position he took Wednesday breaks from the NRA, which denounced any possible ban just the day before.
“Restrictions like bans on gun purchases by people on ‘watch lists’ are ineffective, unconstitutional, or both,” the NRA tweeted Tuesday. The NRA has maintained previously that it “does not want terrorists or dangerous people to have firearms,” claiming that “any suggestion otherwise is offensive and wrong.”
On Capitol Hill, Democrats are determined to force a tough election-year vote on Sen. Dianne Feinstein’s proposal that would let the government bar sales of guns and explosives to people it suspects of being terrorists, a measure opposed by the NRA.
Last December, a day after the San Bernadino shootings left 14 dead, Senate Republicans led the way in rejecting that proposal by Feinstein, D-Calif.
That same day, the Senate also fell short of the necessary votes for a rival plan by Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, that would let the government delay firearms sales to suspected terrorists for up to 72 hours. Under that proposal, the transaction could be halted permanently if federal officials could persuade a judge to do so during that waiting period.
The NRA has backed Cornyn’s plan. Some Democrats and gun-control advocates have criticized it for not going far enough.
The Associated Press contributed to this article.
Obama’s Justice Dept removed this terrorist from the watch list. Why? ….. especially after all the attention this terrorist had directed to himself? I don’t know if Obama was directly helping ISIS or not………. but his actions seemed to imply it. What else would a reasonably intelligent person believe? Donald Trump has simply brought this fact to the public’s attention………….. and at a very critical time. Thank you Donald Trump!
Donald Trump is the only hope we have..I pray he keeps his word and cleans this country IP.
Donald seems to be the only one not afraid to say something. All the politicians don’t know how to for they are afraid of rettrobution.
DONALD TRUMP for the next 8 years.
I agree with Donald Trump for calling it the way he see’s it. Just the fact the guy was on the watch list is a red fag regardless if he was removed from it at a later date. My God the FBI screwed up big time and innocents we’re murdered and maimed. This political correctness crap has got to stop. Our country has been and is under attack by Islam. Islam is Islam. There is absolutely no difference between radical Islam and Islam. Let’s get these potential murderers and rapist out of our country. I do NOT want the U.S. to end up like Europe, Africa, Middle East, Asia, etc. Why the hell are we excepting and welcoming our enemy into our country? Muslim’s bring Islam with them when they migrate here. I don’t want our Country to head down the Islamic path to utter destruction. These politicians need to wake up and see what is violently taking place around the world.
ILLINOIS BOB says
I back TRUMP BUT NOT his rhetoric to ban gun sales to those placed on the “terrorist watch list” and/or the “no fly list” ! The reason is because both lists do not require any adjudication process where one is found guilty to not guilty — it is purely by the whim of certain government agencies…. that is not what this country is about…..Americans have given up too many rights through the Patriot Act .
Allowing the government to solely JUDGE which people to “list” without the benefit of a fair trial ENDANGERS Americans freedoms more than it help protect Americans form terrorists…The government has already proven it cannot protect citizens from terrorists, even if they question them 2 o3 or more times.
The 1st and 2nd amendments are sacred to the American way and Americas freedoms… Sorry to say TRUMP is wrong on this one.
Arthur Hartsock says
Someone else is fighting this use of no fly list to disallow firearms purchases. Hint-he’s a Texas Senator. Yes, it’s Ted Cruz. His voice has been LOUD in the Senate fighting this. I hope that Mr. Trump is patching his differences with Mr. Cruz, but how can you patch calling Cruz a liar? It’ll be difficult, and Donald needs the votes of Cruz’ supporters.
Sorry to break it to you, but Cruz IS a liar! Have a gander at this youtube vid, and see for yourself.
In addition, because of the circumstances of his birth, he can NEVER be president – not lawfully, at any rate. Why would he have sealed his US Citizenship records if there wasn’t something to hide – like he doesn’t HAVE any.
Anyone who supported Cruz was completely ignorant of what the words “natural born citizen” mean, and why it’s so important that none who are NOT ‘natural born’ EVER take the presidency. Wanna see a horrible example? D’OweBama. He counted on Constitutional ignorance to take not one, but TWO terms!
Daniel, I share your sentiments. Personally, I feel everyone on both sides of the isle in government would like nothing better than to make all of us absolutely helpless to defend ourselves in any way. And as for firearm ownership, people should look back in our history when it comes to defending our nation. During WW II Japan was seriously considering invading the West Coast. But Admiral Yamamoto, who had spent time in the U.S. said that would be a big mistake because the firearms in the U.S. are as thick as the blades of grass. Also, people must remember when most of these mass shootings started. That was about seven years ago when Obama took over. Also, the gun control problem started when President Kennedy was assassinated and his little brother Teddy started whining and complaining that we had no right to own those “terrible” weapons. I know for a fact that owning a gun can be a pure joy. Real fun, or an absolute disaster. Whatever the person using it makes it with his or her actions. When (not if) ISIS really starts making trouble here it would be a real asset for everybody to be armed and able to help defend our country, our Constitution, our religions and our lives.
We have to get Him Elected before he can do it. Lets all do our best to Campain for Donald.
Like most business the federal government has limited budgets and manpower to do everything we would like them to do; and if they do the Tax Payers end up paying double what it should cost!
The FBI, Justice Department and intelligence agency has been busy for months and months trying to collect, analyze and determine the damage to our national security and the nations sensitive information caused by Hillary Clintons lack of discretion and responsibility in sending classified and sensitive information over an unauthorized and insecure personal server. The FBI alone is reported to have 100 special agents working on the case; the Justice department and intelligence agency has not stated how many they have assigned to the case. Being able to locate and obtain the emails Clinton has been reluctant to release (some she says she destroyed because, according to her, were irrelevant) has taken months and a the commitment by federal investigators.
The point is; with the time and resources being spent trying to determine what damage has been done and what we will need to do to compensate for it, our nation has taken time away from our major resources’ for protecting our nation.
Had the Clinton mess never occurred there is a chance the FBI and intelligence community may have been able to spend more time watching this nut case and the Orlando incident MAY not have occurred!
Robert Lang says
Like any business, the govt needs to stop unneeded or unprofitable ventures (such as solar power) and focus on terrorists.
This shows us that Hill and Obo are the cause of this shooting and not the guns.
Dwayne what the hell are you talking about cuz? Limited resources ? We’re 19 trillion in debt, the Marxist Obama just gave 150 billion to our ememy to further kill Americans. The 150 bil could have been spent creating a safe zone in northern Iraq for the Syrians. Instead bring them, and the Isis Savages here. I believe Obama understands more Islamic violence will occur, as a matter of fact he’s counting on it, this way, he, and his fellow Marxist get what they really want. Gun bans. Lennon, one of the Marxist hero’s said we can take the country over a defenseless people without firing a single shot. This is the goal of the Marxist tyrant. Impeach the bastard, we don’t have Until January. The Marxists are now ramping everything up
Arthur Hartsock says
Impeachment would take longer than Mr. Obama has left.
The government confiscates PLENTY of money to do their proper job – DEFENSE of the Union. Instead, they spend the majority on a NANNY STATE supporting freeloaders and buying votes.
Obama is a tyrant traitor is why friend, the Marxist Obama want to disrupt Americas foundation, that way, the United Nations will become the world government. The Hague will be the world court, and you will no longer have rights provided by the constitution. It is the constitution that has kept the Marxist from taking over America & the world a long time ago.
Why are they even talking this smack? Because a minority den has temper tantrum?
If you do some searching, you will find the problem. Fbi not allowed to profile! That sums it all up!!!
The problem is you can’t take a constitutional right away without judicial ruling. You can not give technocrats this power, especially with the political overtones.
The Constitution doesn’t grant or create rights. It is only intended to “secure” those unalienable rights which the people already possess against government interference. Judges don’t have this power either unless tha people decide to give it to them. MOLON LABE!!
Richard B says
Typical government response, punish the law abiding citizens while at the same time Obama is releasing criminals from prison and releasing terrorist from Gitmo. what an idiot.
Ok, if your a suspected terrorist or public ally support terrorist groups, however legal law abiding citizens should be allowed small arms weapons, hunting rifles, marksmanship rifles, and hunting shotguns in states were rifles are not permitted. Now Obama twisted logic; people in prison for non-violent crimes like selling drugs which included big time dealers are to be released if sentences are to long in his opinion? When applying for a job, no longer should have to tell employer if your a felon or type of crime found guilty of, is suggested? Refugees from Syria region get quick security screening then quickly admitted, ten thousands expected here by September. If you oppose or suggest a delay your labeled a bigot opposed to Islam as a faith? Thousands crossing the southern borders daily are quickly processed, many labeled refugees to collect assistance then shipped across the USA. So many that news reports that there is no longer time to schedule a court appearance. Much of this so done in secret, or numbers are deflated as to not alarm citizens, all kinds of sneaky stuff being done. “Is this what we are all about?” Ok, ban assault weapons that makes sense, yet People are scared of the executive branch and if their agenda took away of cost the dying out middle class money their angry. I pray for January 2017 to come quickly.
Of course; Obama feels if we can allow these things for U,S, citizens then we can not expect anything different for anyone else coming into this country; he would be totally satisfied with that! .
Obama would love to “open the borders” and allow anyone at any time to just come and go as they desire. He says we can not afford to deport them so just let them come as they wish (and he has pretty much done just that!) Had he spent the $2.2 billion dollar marketing budget he has in deporting (he claims we can not afford) or a portion of the massive costs for his vacations we would have money for deportation; enforcing our laws would help a hell of a lot too! !
BUT – if that ever happens, and more people die, he will quickly point fingers at someone else and blame them for the problem. He never takes responsibility for his words, actions or deeds!
The man has shown a total lack of personal responsibility, lack of leadership, high level of failed integrity and has done damage to this country that will take fifty years to overcome! And Hillary Clinton says she will carry on with his agenda- but then that got his endorsement (and she lies so maybe she won’t follow Obama’s lead.)
As the POTUS he has a job to do that he is not doing. As the boss you put in all the hours needed, even if that means no vacation, to do your job. Any company would fire that boss on the spot for what he has done. It is time to FIRE him and have him pay back for the vacations he has taken, even the ones he says are business trips.
She would be even worse. If elected to a 3rd Obama term, she would feel as though she has a mandate. Talk about ruff shod
Sorry but you’re misunderstanding the purpose of the amendment. As several of the Founders said, it was to allow the people to defend themselves and their rights against all attacks including those of a tyrannical government. It has nothing to with hunting and target shooting and everything to do with individual rights and freedoms.
BUT, consider Obama’s track record.
He lies as often as he gives a public speech.
Recall he said not long ago that, “ANY illegal in this country that commits a crime WILL BE DEPORTED.” So – why has he released dozens and dozens (if not hundreds) of illegal immigrants from our prisons back onto our streets and they were not deported?
Obama thinks he can say something today, ignore it later and the American people will have forgotten it.
Obama’s “do nothing” approach to the biggest invasion of illegals into our country in our history has motivated the flood of illegals here. Now he says the number of illegals is to big to try deporting. He created the problem he says is now to big to handle with our laws. BUT, he will not take responsibility for the mess. And, even as he acknowledges the huge number of illegal workers here, he will not enforce federal laws that prohibit American employers employing illegals within the United States. Add that to the fact we have 42 million American men and women in need of decent work but Obama has authorized an additional 25000 legal immigrants to come into the United States to work; that is in addition to the I million Congress has already authorized and the 4 million Obama himself says are illegal immigrants working in this country.
This is what we ended up with in Obama and this is what Hillary Clinton says she will continue doing if she elected president. Under Obama our nations quality of life has been diminished; American men and women and their families in need of work and a way out of the government forced poverty will continue under a Hillary Clinton administration! She does not understand working for a living; she lives off donations and spends huge sums of not money she has earned but rather other peoples money!
dennis chase says
America is being run by a tyrants, with many positions filled by Muslims. This is the very reason, for the 2nd Amendment.
from my cold dead hands will i be disarmed
Totally agree!! Semper Fi!!
Greg Dean says
When are the American people going to quit talking about , and with, Democrats as if they are normal people??? They are NOT! They are evil and the proof is their every action and response is mean-spirited, illogical, and/or only meant to retain their power & advance evil agenda!
Robert Ross says
Even if we do not have any guns, even a B-B gun the black market will sell you a gun of any kind, even a tank, a RPG or even a howitzer or a civil war cannon. Of course we the people will be defenseless including all you A-HOLES that are gun activists that we shouldn’t have a gun, even when the police are only 14 to 20 min. away as in Orlando when it took them 14 min.s to respond. Were they afraid of this rag head? Maybe they thought he’d be gone by the time they got there. OH WELL!!!!! MOLON LABE !!!!!
Robert Lang says
Why NOT have a cannon. Our founding fathers used PRIVATELY OWNED artillery during the War of Independence. Read your history on Henry Knox.
Lets remove the guns from the secret service group that is protecting him and Hill and see how fast he changes his mind.
Better yet, lets issue every politician the gun of their choice, put them on a desert isle for 90 days with 525 terriorist. When they come off the island, they will have a different attitude concerning guns.
EEL RIVER says
THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT OBUMBA IS IN ON PROTECTING THESE HATERS, THERE ARE AT LEAST 300 MILLION GUNS THAT HAVE NO PAPER TRAIL, COMMON SENSE WILL TELL YOU THAT A HATER CAN GET A WEAPON ANYWHERE, FROM ANYBODY! THE WEAPON DOESNT NEED TO GO TO JAIL, ONLY THE MUSLIM. IF YOU DONT THINK MUSLIMS ARE THE PROBLEM LIKE OUR FEARLESS LEADER, HOW MANY PRIEST,S OR RABBIS HAVE SHOT OR BLOWN UP ANYTHING? THINK ABOUT IT! OBUMBA IS GETTING MAD BECAUSE SOONER OR LATER SOMEBODY WILL CATCH HIM IN HIS LIES, HE IS NOW BEING PUT TO THE TEST BY MR. TRUMP. ITS SO BAD THAT THE FBI GOT THE EMAILS THAT WHERE MISSING FROM THE RUSSIANS! HOW LONG CAN THIS PHONY GOVT LAST?
Darrel Dunson says
I propose a ban on action that might infringe on my constitutional rights. We have enough laws, they just need to be enforced. Politics, dirty politics, allowed the Orlando event to happen. Had Obummer, Hitlery, and the DOJ stayed out of it the FBI might have stayed connected and prevented that massacre. Again, this happened in a “gun free zone”. There should be NONE of the gun free zones. Then the idiots who caused this to happen from behind the scene come forward and lay blame on the wrong place so they can demand gun control that doesn’t work. I’d be for gun control if it kept them out of the hands of the criminals but it doesn’t. It only penalizes the honest, the victims, and makes them defenseless. Gun control is absurd and ridicules. Some time ago Russia became economic advisor to a country. They convinced them during the two year period that they had no use for guns and all were taken. Shortly after everyone got up one morning only to be informed that Russia had taken control of their country. They took over a nation without firing a shot! Don’t give in to any type of gun ban. Being slaves will be the next step!
Joe Toland says
“Anyone on a terror watch list who tries to buy a gun should be thoroughly investigated by the FBI and the sale delayed while the investigation is ongoing.
Sounds perfectly logical to me. Anybody on any list for anything should have due process to clear their name.
The ATF has a three day waiting period for anyone that does pass the Instant Check the first time. After that three days are up, it is actually 5 days, as the day of the Instant Check does not count and the last day does not count. If nothing is forthcoming from the FBI-ATF then the Federal Firearms License holder has the prerogative to sell the gun, but is not required to do so. The only thing the FFL holder has is that the Instant Check failed so there was 3 day waiting period.
This happened at the Church where the nine black people were killed and then the shooting just prior to that, I don’t remember where it was. In fact the FBI-ATF said that it was their fault for not getting back with the Gun Dealer. In all of 2015 they were trying to install a new Instant Check but it could come up and then be pulled down and go back to the old system. I know because we received and E-mail each time it was put on to use and then within about 24 hours or less it would be pulled. I think they finally gave up.
That should say for anyone that DID NOT pass the instant check
i could accept this under some conditions.
1) ANY name on a watch list MUST have the name of the person responsible for them being placed on that list recorded. If not already there, research, find out, and include.This name is not available to the person unless they fight it and win.
2) If a person is placed or about to be placed on such a list, the govt MUST so notify them, include the reasons, and give them a chance to challenge (due process) BEFORE the name is actually listed. For those already on, notify and provide cause.
3) If the person so requests, a JURY trial MUST be provided PRIOR to listing. If the person wins, the agent who attempted to list them pays their legal fees out of personal funds.
4) If a person is on a watch list illegitimately (and he/she jumps through the legal hoops to get cleared), then the agent that caused them to be put ON the list in the first place must pay all the person’s legal fees out of personal funds.
5) With 3 and 4, the agent must issue a public apology for wrongful accusation. Failure to apologize results in an automatic conviction for defamation and/or libel, and perjury if a sworn statement is involved (and MORE penalty cash).
Penny or two says
Joe, the 2nd Amendment – “shall not be infringed”.
All Muslims should be sent back to there country as well as all Mexicans. We have enough crimanals without importing them !!Wake up America..
It is not the Americans that have to wake up it is the F——–g Politicians that we put into office. November is around the corner and the time to eliminate them with fresh blood
Inspector Tom says
Unfortunately ‘fresh blood’ doesn’t necessary will mean ‘better blood’, lately it doesn’t seem to matter who is elected they all act the same when they get to the office…the way I look at it is that when my Dad graduated from college in the early 1930’s if he had 100 in his class you had about 10 or 10% that were out for themselves and would do almost anything to get it, now… from the same class size, those type are almost 100% of the class
If you only Clinton gets in the office that’s good my oldest at all within a year will be an Islamic nation which is what Obama wants
GENE B says
Guns do not kill, sick people with guns do. Let’s improve getting the sickies whether is’s or mentally sick on the watch lists. I am a FFL DEALER and WILL NOT SELL ANY WEAPON TO A PERSON WHO LOOKS or acts SUSPICIOUS. Anyone who wants to buy a few guns along with ammo at one time and gives a false atmosphere about their persona during our conversations I will find a way to refuse the sale. It is my responsibility as a dealer to protect.
If Hillary Clinton gets in the office within a year this country will be an Islamic Nation which is what Obama’s been working on for the last 8 years put that b**** in the office and we’re all doomed
Only Americans have freedom of speech not Muslim (Isis).
No they have all the other rights which include free housing, food, medical, fun money, etc
Justin W says
Keeping terrorists from buying guns is a good idea, but the implementation of such a rule will be difficult. As was correctly pointed out in the story, people can be placed on the watch list without the opportunity to defend themselves and without the government having to prove anything. During the past seven years we have seen reports from the Department of Homeland Security that insinuated that vets, pro-lifers, and conservative Christians could be potential terrorists. We have seen the IRS deny tax exempt status to TEA Party groups. What protections are going to be put into place to see that the terror watch list doesn’t mushroom to include everyone who disagrees with the president and his agenda? Where are the due process Constitutional rights of American citizens going to be added to the legislation?
The reality is this proposal would not have prevented the nightclub massacre. Every gun control measure that the Obama administration has trotted out following a shooting event would have done nothing to prevent the tragedy.
I don’t own a gun. I’m not looking to buy a gun. I agree that the amount of gun violence in our nation needs to be dealt with. But, the gun control laws seem to be more about taking away the rights of law abiding citizens than actually preventing gun violence. Creating a wave of bad laws is not the appropriate response to these tragedies.
Why don’t all police departments dip their bullets in pig blood, and advertise it. These radicals may not be afraid to die, but if you
add the pig blood they fear death like that. They think the pollution will send them to hell. The government knows this , why don’t they use it.
Christopher S. O'Rourke says
The police departments are run by idiots that believe dipping bullets in pigs blood is dumb, stupid, idiotic, ignorant to consider doing that.
Al D says
I’ve been saying that about pig’s blood for years. Only not just the police. Military fighting any Muslim extremists should do it. Watch ISIS scream like school girls to get away!
Arthur Hartsock says
We could use the childish prank of filling balloons with swine blood instead of water. We could clear a crowded Muslim street in seconds.
I already polish all the throwing knives and swords (including my Klingon bat’leth) with bacon grease, and leave a layer on to protect them. Why throwing knives? Quieter. I can stick a mouse (or an intruders neck) 20 ft away with very little sound to warn others – and he MIGHT live long enough for me to tell him about the bacon grease and his impending stop in Hell if he’s Islamic. Also easier to stash. I can be anywhere in my house and have sheath of three knives in my hand in under 5 seconds. Guns? Yes, I have those too. All ammunition in home defense or carry weapons has also been soaked in bacon grease, even the buckshot in the Mossberg 500. My yard is regularly sprinkled with pig blood and/or bacon grease, too – Muslim? better stay on the sidewalk. If ALL Americans (at least all Conservatives) did similar, these radicals might give up. Oh yeah, I’ve been meaning to ask (any Muslim here want to answer?)… Where in the Koran does it say those 72 virgins are FEMALE? or even HUMAN? Maybe they’re tigers, grizzlies and alligators? I read a little of the Koran in the bathroom (it’s printed on my toilet paper – when I’m not using the Obama or Hillary rolls), and haven’t found that information yet.
Robert Lang says
Much like passengers in an post-11 Sept airplane, the police need to modify their tactics. THE ONLY REASON the death toll is so high is because the POLICE LET THE VICTIMS BLEED TO DEATH while waiting THREE HOURS to enter the club.
As a gun owner I have no problem in making it far more difficult to by an AR-15 or any other type of potential assault weapon. I am not saying ban them but make it more difficult. Another solution is making the FBI send information about suspected terrorists to the local police departments!
Remember, It was Obama’s regime who TARGETED Specific Conservative Groups by the IRS. Don’t think for a moment they would not systematically start placing their political enemies to a “No Fly” list without due process. they already have.
How about the government start enforcing the laws on the books before adding laws based on emotion and reaction.
Arthur Hartsock says
We’re getting dangerously close to having to hide rifles and ammunition for the coming fight. Many ‘preppers’ have already done so. They wisely saw this coming. As we can see many Republicans are supporting banning no fly list passengers from buying weapons. Lists can be manipulated by any faceless bureaucrat. Next comes reestablishment of the Federal ban on ‘assault’ weapons. Now all you have is a shotgun. Which is excellent to fight a burglar but not a well equipped US Army.
Alice K says
Take it from someone who lives in the communist state of New York. The goal is not to make it difficult to buy an AR-15, it is to make it impossible. AR-a5’s are not assault weapons, they are automatic rifles. Some of them may have features of an assault weapon, but the cosmetic feature does not make it an assault weapon. As a gun owner, please do not feed into the anti-gunners purposeful misclassification of our firearms.
If the GOP joins the socialist democ-RATS in INFRINGING on our 2nd Amendment Rights, IT IS OVER.
They will have created an unnecessary class of criminals. The American Gun Owner.
These cowards are going to cause a civil war before they are done. SHALL NOT BE INFINGED was written for a time such as this. This government may not PROTECT and DEFEND the Constitution of the United States. This government may have decided to pick and choose which laws they will enforce and honor. But to attempt to INFRINGE on our 2nd Amendment Rights is a direct attack on the Constitution of the United States of America and CANNOT STAND.
America, Prepare to defend yourselves. Our government has turned on us.
When you have an Idiot commander in chief (Chaos and terrorist Facilitator) giving weapons to the Middle east that more often than naught fall into the terrorist Islamic state not into the hands of those fighting that state, by the way that’s our tax money we haven’t even earned yet! And a media keeping the minions in the dark, Look for Marshall law if he is not removed soon.. If what just happened is not an act of war then get everyone to believe we need more restrictive gun laws. There is evil in this world and if your not recognizing it your part of it. Just remember I’m with the Government and I’m here to help you is how it starts. I have to agree with Daniel with the remark just above me.
At this point in time a new rule would be useless. The people who are or would be terrorist already have all the firepower they need. The Orlando shooter was on the FBI watch list and what did that do. The shooter had enough clearance to get an armed guard certification and worked for a government contractor. More laws will not make us safer. It will be a politician feel good operation. We have plenty of laws on the books that would have prevented this shooting. This administration has chosen to not follow these laws. So why more?
Gloria Alatorre says
The Obama administration has done nothing for the safety and well being of this nation. They have their agenda and will push it to the end, even if it is destroying the country. They would sell their own mothers if that would benefit them.
I for one are tired of Obama’s bullshit and him protecting those Muslim scum. They claim the Quaran tell them to kill all American and to lie to everyone to protect therm selves so how in hell are you going to deal with them.If they insist on following their so called maybe we better start following ours.My bible says an eye for an eye so I think we ought start killing 50 or sixty of the bastards in their Masques when they are praying.Good time for a slaughter and a way to catch up.And don’t forget 911 so we have a lot of catching up to do.Obama stopped the FBI from investigating that Mosque in Florida but it’s produced the last two killers now so I think you are safe in calling Obama a traitor.The military ought to mtake him out and then close all their gathering places down .Period
David Pettey says
Both Obama and Hillary are followers of Saul Alynsky’s “Rules for Radicals ”
which shows how to take over and subdue a country. Obama has already implimented
several of these “rules “. If Hillary is elected : (which seems inevitable because the fix is in
and Obama has endorsed her.) We will be subjected to at least four more years of Obama !!!
Obama has tipped the FBI the wink in as much as he has indicated that he does not want Hilary indicted !!!
George Soros owns and manipulates the voting machines that we use in this country even though
thy are banned in Europe.There will be lots of dead people voting a well as more Hillary voters than
actually live in the districts !!!! Our votes are counted in Spain for God’s sake !!!!!
A Arizonian says
He who frames the argument, usual wins the argument. We must be vigilant and not let politicians frame the so called gun debate.
The only questionable part of the second amendment that could even remotely be unsettled is who controls the “well regulated Militia,” the States or the Federal Government. The Constitutional Convention left this question unanswered.
The right of the people, the “Sovereign Citizens” to keep and bear arms was never in question. In fact, it was because it was not in question that the “politicians” of the day, felt they could kick the can down the road on the issue of who controlled the militia.
The reason for the second amendment is best expressed by our first Commander in Chief;
“Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence … From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable . . . the very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference – they deserve a place of honor with all that is good” ~ George Washington
To allow politicians or anyone else to frame a debate on this issue is culpable in undermining the Constitution itself. There is no debate to be had, shall not be infringed was the strongest legal term in use then, as it is today.
As to the key argument presented by some that the founders had no intent that citizen would have the same types of individual weapons (bear arms) as the military, only shows the absurdity of their argument or the sheer intent to deceive the people;
• In the Revolutionary War many units of militia were hunters, backwoodsmen or Indian fighters and were armed with the “long rifles or Kentucky long rifles” that could accurately fire a .45 caliber lead ball 300 to 400 yards. The army was using smooth barrel muskets with a range of 100 to 200 yards, but accurately only to 50 to 75 yards hence, armies lining up 50 to 75 yards away from each other and banged away. Citizen’s had better weapons!
• In the Civil War the common weapon of the armies was the Springfield Model 1861 Rifled Musket with percussion caps and Minié balls, a far improvement over the muskets. The Spencer repeating rifle was used by the cavalry in small amounts, also some Burnside breech-loaders and Sharps Rifles, but mainly the Springfield 1861 rifled musket was used by most soldiers however, Northern Volunteer Regiments (Citizen Militia) had the star of the day, the 1860 Henry lever action repeating rifle, firing a .44 caliber cartage with a 16 round tube magazine “Load on Sunday and fire all week!” Citizen’s had better weapons!
• World Wars I (and in part II) the standard weapons of the military were Springfield M1903 and the M1 Garand, Automatic Pistol, Caliber .45, M1911 (which is semi-automatic) as well as the Thompson submachine gun. Citizen’s had the same weapons available to them!
Some firearms control history:
The National Firearms Act of 1934 regulating only fully automatic firearms like sub-machine guns is approved by Congress.
The Federal Firearms Act of 1938 places the first limitations on selling ordinary firearms. Persons selling guns are required to obtain a Federal Firearms License, at an annual cost of $1, and to maintain records of the name and address of persons to whom firearms are sold. Gun sales to persons convicted of violent felonies were prohibited.
The Gun Control Act of 1968 – “…was enacted for the purpose of keeping firearms out of the hands of those not legally entitled to possess them because of age, criminal background, or incompetence.”
The Armed Career Criminal Act (Public Law 99-570) increases penalties for possession of firearms by persons not qualified to own them under the Gun Control Act of 1986.
The Firearms Owners Protection Act (Public Law 99-308) relaxes some restrictions on gun and ammunition sales and establishes mandatory penalties for use of firearms during the commission of a crime. 1968
The Crime Control Act of 1990 (Public Law 101-647) bans manufacturing and importing semiautomatic assault weapons in the U.S. “Gun-free school zones” are established carrying specific penalties for violations. This law is no longer in effect.
The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (Public Law 103-159) imposes a five-day waiting period on the purchase of a handgun and requires that local law enforcement agencies conduct background checks on purchasers of handguns.
The Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 (Public Law 103-322) bans all sale, manufacture, importation, or possession of a number of specific types of assault weapons.
1997- The Supreme Court, in the case of Printz v. United States, declares the background check requirement of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act unconstitutional.
1998- Permanent provisions of the Brady Act go into effect. Gun dealers are now required to initiate a pre-sale criminal background check of all gun buyers through the newly created National Instant Criminal Background Check (NICS) computer system.
1999- By a 51-50 vote, with the tie-breaker vote cast by Vice President Gore, the Senate passes a bill requiring trigger locks on all newly manufactured handguns and extending waiting period and background check requirements to sales of firearms at gun shows.
2008- In District of Columbia v. Heller, a landmark case, the Supreme Court dismisses the Washington, D.C. handgun ban. The court ruled that the Second Amendment of the U. S. Constitution protects an individual’s right to possess a firearm for private use within the home in federal enclaves, which the District of Columbia is considered.
As to how the aforementioned laws relate to the second amendment, all of these laws are unconstitutional;
I repeat all federal gun laws are unconstitutional! No new amendment has been passed as required in the constitution!
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a Free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
Bear arms means; weapons that a person can carry i.e. not a tank, cannon, B-52 bomber, aircraft carrier or the like.
Shall not be infringed means; the Congress, the President nor the Supreme Court cannot change, add to, delete from or in any way interpret, in a manner that interferes with the exercise of these rights . . . . . Period end of the debate!
And that, citizens of this Republic is where any discussion on gun control should start and in my opinion end.
With regards to background checks to ensure only legal citizens are able to purchase firearms, that convicted felons and persons who are residing in mental institutions or deemed incompetent by a jury of their peers are not allowed to do so. Laws are already in place and have been for years, there just not enforced.
Mandatory universal background checks while seemingly wise and harmless are in fact: registration of gun owners.
I will not entertain any registration of firearms nor owners, I know the argument “we register our cars and we need to have a license to drive one” ~ yes, and that is very true however, having a car and driving on the public roadway is a privilege not a constitutional right!
”A free people ought not only be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who would attempt to abuse them, which would include their own Government.”
George Washington on the 2nd Amendment
I took an oath; . . . that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same . . . .
There is no expiration date neither listed nor implied in this oath therefore; unless there is a constitutional amendment enacted, I cannot by good conscience and oath comply with any edict, proclamation nor unlawful regulation which the government may deem necessary to control or infringe upon my unalienable right of self defense. ~ A Arizonian
Well written, well-thought-out, insightful and intelligent analysis. Hats off to you!
Puts my subsequent post to shame, it does.
It is inadvisable to automatically ban people on the Terror or No Fly watch lists because the criteria to put someone on those lists is unknown and often times the wrong people are put on those lists. There must be a published criteria for being on those lists and due process to appeal being put on the list before a person is deprived their right to purchase a firearm.
Robert Trebes says
The public needs to know the ‘Criteria’ the US Government uses to put a person on this list. The government will not disclose the criteria they use to put you on this list or the opportunity for you to challenge the government that you don’t belong on this list. You will be stripped of your Constitutional Second Amendment Right without Due Process of Law. Without being tried of a crime, you are being punished. Politicians on BOTH sides of the isle need to read the US Constitution and enforce it.
The Horn article says this:
Trump frequently declares that he is one of the nation’s biggest supporters of the 2nd Amendment, which guarantees the right to bear firearms
Actually, first, that’s NOT what the 2nd Amendment says. Here it is, in it’s entirety:
“A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.”
Do you see the word “FIREarm” in there anywhere at all? No? Then why attempt to misquote it or misconstrue it’s intent?
SCOTUS had it right back in 1875(after the War for State’s Rights, btw), in US v Cruikshank, et al, which in relevant part reads:
“[The Right to Keep and Bear Arms] is not a right granted by the Constitution. Neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence. The second amendment declares that it shall not be infringed;… This is one of the amendments that has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the national government,…”.
! U.S. v. Cruikshank Et Al. 92 U.S. 542 (1875).
No agent of the Federal government has this power, not Constitutionally, not Lawfully. Every American, as his/her birthright, may keep and bear any arms whatsoever that they can afford – including cannon, btw(which is why privateers were able to defend themselves from pirates and even go after them lawfully once “letters of marque and reprisal” were issued to them).
Are Americans INSANE to trust KNOWN betrayers of the public trust in re: No Fly lists? Hell, some bureaucrat could “flag” all Libertarians or Ron Paul supporters, for example, and put them on a No Fly list without ANY review by anyone, then force all these people to go “prove their innocence” before being “allowed” to exercise a Right!
Wasn’t “innocent until PROVEN GUILTY in a court of law” an AXIOM of American law? Something like this turns it all backwards!
i know, it’s hard to believe that there are certain things that the Constitution FORBIDS general gov’t actors to infringe upon in any way, but if you honor the Truth, you know that all sworn officeholders are betraying their Oaths when they take actions the Constitution does not authorize them to take.
But “Res Adjudicata” applies, here: The Thing has ALREADY BEEN DECIDED.
James Stevens says
Today, In the USA, 65,788,249 registered weapons of all calibers and description, Killed No One. In the hands of well trained and responsible taxpayers the firearms of America are less dangerous than a baby buggy. But when a registered Democrat voter, or a crazed Shariah lover gets one in their hands the baby buggy is always much safer. Ridiculous comparison? Perhaps, but not any more ridiculous than congress calling for tighter gun controls while doing nothing to increase pressure on those who need vetting.
Guns do not kill anyone. People kill People. The left is using gun control rhetoric to hide the fact that their policies have failed for the last 50 years. I would recommend we remove about 500 of the 545 on Capital (sic) Hill and replace them with average middle class businessmen that actually know how to manage money and baby watch us Go! jwstx
Maybe next they will ban pencils because they misspell words! Also, ban the fork and spoon because they make people fat.
GUN CONTROL MEANS THAT I CAN HIT THE TARGET WITH THE FIRST SHOT! WHAT WE NEED IS MORE MUSLIM CONTROL!
Wanda leonard says
Every one should own a gun to kill the SOB and pig blood put their asses back to where they came from.!!!!!!!!