A new book about Johnny Carson confirms the existence of a so-called “black list” of banned guests on “The Tonight Show” that included major celebrities such as Jay Leno, Ellen DeGeneres, and William Shatner.
“Love Johnny Carson,” written by Carson aficionado Mark Malkoff with David Ritz, covers Carson’s life and career during his 30-year run as host of NBC’s “The Tonight Show.” The book features interviews with those who knew him best.
When speaking with Peter Lassally, Carson’s producer for 22 years, Malkoff confirmed the infamous “Tonight Show” ban list existed. Malkoff wrote that to his knowledge there was never a physical list, but both “Burt Reynolds and Rich Little both claimed to have seen a ‘hard copy’ with over thirty names on it.”
“Sometimes, if the difficulties were caused by a guest, the offending party was banned,” the book said. “Despite persistent rumors, Tonight Show insiders long claimed that the show never had a list of guests who were banned from appearing with Carson. But the ban list was real.”
Jay Leno made his “Tonight Show” debut in March 1977 and was a smash hit, soon becoming a regular on the show. Things went wrong after his fifth appearance in February 1978, when “the audience laughs were so light that Johnny decided never to invite him back,” according to the book.
“‘Johnny just doesn’t like him. He doesn’t like his jokes,’ said [his producer]. ‘That’s not going to change… Once he doesn’t like someone, he doesn’t start liking them later,'” Malkoff wrote.
Leno eventually returned to the show, later going on to host “The Tonight Show” for a combined 22 years, first from 1992 to 2009 and then from 2010 to 2014.
Ellen DeGeneres made history as the first-ever female comedian to be called over to the couch by Carson when she made her first appearance on the show in November 1986. She returned to the show two more times before upsetting Carson and effectively getting banned for the rest of his tenure as host.
According to the show’s publicist, Charlie Barrett, Carson told DeGeneres not to make a certain joke during her third appearance in May 1987, but the comedian chose to do so anyway.
“Barrett was there in the green room after the show when Jim [McCawley] chastised Ellen in front of everyone. Pointing at her, he said, ‘I told you not to do that material.’ Barrett recalled Ellen looking embarrassed. Jim made Ellen and her guest leave, saying, ‘You won’t be back again too soon,'” Malkoff wrote.
DeGeneres didn’t return until 1989, when Jay Leno was guest hosting.
William Shatner was not asked back after he broke three “Tonight Show” rules during his 1983 appearance.
According to the book, Shatner made the mistake of speaking “monotonously for four minutes straight,” without letting Carson interject.
“Second, he turned his back on his host to talk to Buddy Hackett. Third, he disregarded the Tonight rule that it was okay to mention your non-NBC TV series but not the network it aired on. Shatner mentioned the show, his series T. J. Hooker, and then also mentioned that it was on ABC. (The word was muted for air.),” the book states.
Scientist Carl Sagan was a popular guest on the “Tonight Show,” appearing at least 24 times, and even starting a friendship with Carson. That all changed in January 1986, when Sagan corrected Carson twice as the two were discussing Halley’s comet.
“Carson made light of his mistakes. He hid his embarrassment with his affable smile. Inside, though, he felt slighted. Strange that such a brief exchange carried such a sting, but despite his abiding respect for Sagan, Carson made sure the astrophysicist was not invited back to the talk show that had brought him enviable celebrity status,” Malkoff wrote.
Dana Carvey was “permanently banned” from appearing as a guest on the “Tonight Show” in 1990 for pushing the envelope too far in a “Saturday Night Live” sketch parodying the talk show.
The comedian had been playing Carson in similar sketches since the late 1980s. Jeff Sotzing, a producer on the “Tonight Show,” told Malkoff in the book that Carson wasn’t a fan, saying, “I don’t talk like that. I don’t use those expressions,” with Sotzing saying he thought they made him “seem like he was old and confused.”
Despite his dislike of the sketches, Carson continued to have Carvey on the show until a 1990 sketch that portrayed Carson as “out of touch, unhip and clueless” while chatting with his guest and competitor Arsenio Hall.
“After that, Carvey was permanently banned from Tonight. Days after the airing of the offending sketch about him and Ed, during his monologue, Johnny referenced it without mentioning the show. ‘I’m getting senile. Both of us. We’re old. A couple of old farts is what we are,'” the book says.
Jerry Lewis had either been a guest or guest hosted the “Tonight Show” over 80 times by 1975, but a disagreement with a crew member led to Lewis’ ban from the show.
After Lewis guest hosted for a week, Malkoff writes that the show’s cue card guy, Don Schiff, told Carson he would never be in charge of cards when Lewis was guest hosting. When pressed for a reason, Schiff told Carson, Lewis “got hysterical [and] verbally abusive” when Schiff told him he couldn’t fulfill his request in time.
“After hearing the story, Johnny made a quick decision. Despite Lewis’s being a giant of American entertainment, Johnny was clear: Lewis would never guest-host or appear on the show again. And other than one brief exception, he never did,” the book says.
“Carson did not abide bad manners. Nor did he tolerate anyone who disrespected his staff and crew, stars be damned,” Malkoff wrote.